Comments on: Clean Source vs. Clean DOM

By: dolphinling

dolphinling — Wed, 13 Jul 2005 18:43:12 +0000

Alessandro, there's nothing wrong with adding elements to the DOM. If you need to add a paragraph, add a paragraph. If you need to emphasize a piece of text, emphasize that piece of text. The point, though, is that like the original DOM, the new DOM must also be semantic.

Javascript and the DOM weren't invented solely for "normal" browsers—if I add a paragraph to my page, I want screenreaders to read that paragraph, too. There are so many different devices that read HTML that the only way to make your documents work on all of them is to keep it entirely semantic. The same is true of scripting. If you add a bunch of <b> elements to a page through script just for the purpose of presentation, a screenreader won't understand them. Neither will a braille device, or lynx, or anything that does presentation differently than you expected.

Now, I'm not against using Javascript to change presentation (I'm going to write about that soon), but I am against changing the semantics of the document to get that presentation.

By: Alessandro Fulciniti

Alessandro Fulciniti — Wed, 13 Jul 2005 10:05:31 +0000

Oli and Dolphin, I believe one could choose the (best, right, proper) way to use javascript. But if you choose not to add elements in the dom tree, then you should throw out of the window 90% or more of the existing scripts.

One of the reason DOM was invented I believe is to add and play with the page elements leaving the markup intact, semantical and unobtrousive

Think about it. Perhaps reading this article will help you.

By: oli young

oli young — Wed, 13 Jul 2005 00:07:03 +0000

I’ll take a clean DOM and squared corners, over ‘perdy’ effects and a valid, yet soupy mess. Sometimes it’s worthwhile stepping back and actually evaluating whether you *really* need rounded corners, or is it worth sacrificing a little sexiness for less hassle? Chances are only 30% will notice it, and after the first ‘ooh’ it’s all about the content ..

By: Dimitri Glazkov

Dimitri Glazkov — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 02:21:12 +0000

I am with Alessandro on this one. It is a lot cheaper, flexible, and elegant to keep your markup semantically valid and use DOM scripting to hack and "pollute" DOM on the client-side than to generate the invalid markup on the server-side.

... with a disclaimer that this should only be done once you've exhausted all other options and these are the only two choices left on the table.

That's the whole point behind the my TILT thingamajigy.

By: Alessandro Fulciniti

Alessandro Fulciniti — Sun, 03 Jul 2005 19:53:02 +0000

Hi, just a quick answer. In my humble opinion, it’s better to have the html clean instead of a markup mess (such as tables or six nested divs like someone do..) and adding the elements via DOM to get rounded corners. Nifty Corners are at the moment the cleaner way to get rounded corners without extra markup, especially on fluid boxes.

If we can’t use the DOM to add unsemantical, and most of all empty and meaningless elements that doesn’t affect accessibility nor content, then we just have to sit and wait about 5 years for CSS3 to come…

By: Jimmy Cerra

Jimmy Cerra — Fri, 01 Jul 2005 15:48:29 +0000

You must really hate this JavaScript VectorGraphics library then. :-p

By: Terrence Wood

Terrence Wood — Fri, 01 Jul 2005 06:13:41 +0000

Funny you should use Alessandro’s page as an example.

I made some comments about not messing with the source code simply to apply a visual style in relation to some of Alessandro’s recommendations here: http://web-graphics.com/mtarchive/001602.php#chatty004990